From Something To Nothing To Everything
After The Inquiry: There’s No Seeking, No Seeker – Just The Ease Of Effortless Living...
This dialogue took place over a five month period. The
finishing of seeking brings profound peace and ease in daily life, as this “former seeker” demonstrates:
R.G. Writes - There was a pointer I read somewhere a
while ago that said "How am I aware or even know that I exist"? Now the so called problem that is arising in this awareness
is a conflict that sounds different from your pointers in 'perfect peace' which starts asking us first if we exist (yes) and
if we are aware (yes) and to look at that. But although there was seeing for a moment into this and that it cannot be
denied I don't understand why you hint us towards starting with the undeniable premise that we exist but the other pointer
is putting our very existence into question and it is a good question how am I aware or even know that I exist?
C: Right. But keep in mind all these words are ONLY pointers! Don’t get caught up trying
to find a “right” pointer. ALL the pointers ONLY POINT and often there can be two apparently opposing concepts
yet BOTH can point to the Timeless Spaceless IS that you truly are. Stop trying to figure this out! It cannot be understood;
the answer is NOT in the mind. You ARE – LIFE IS – THAT is the answer the mind cannot hold. Because the mind (sounds,
words, concepts, feelings, knowledge) appear IN that Space of Awareness that is lit by The Light of Beingness that you really
This is UN-Figure-Outable! As John Wheeler says, “The pointers are only a reminder that
you are not what you think you are. Before you think, you are. And that is perfect from the start”.
R.G. - So my problem is that the pointer used in paradise found does
'reveal' THAT but I don't see why I accepted I exist so easily. I mean I think I exist.
C: THAT is the delusion, the ignorance that says “I think therefore I am”. First
you ARE, then the thoughts arise. Descartes had it Bass Ackwards! Drop that false
concept now and SEE what IS is that YOU ARE but THAT YOU ARE is NOT a thought!
R.G. - Or better I am aware of some a presence here that I cannot
deny but why is the first pointer second-guessing something that you or myself say is undeniable. I thought all pointers are
pointing at THAT same thing that cannot be spoken about but is that pointer simply starting from another angle; there
is 10,000 ways to god as has been said. I think that some pointers start with showing you first what you are and I you finally
see it for your-SELF. And then others start by showing you what you are not so that you can arrive at what you are.
C: This is a very good question. Yet there can be no answer that will be “TRUE”.
The Truth cannot be put into words because words are tools if distinction or division. This is why Lao
Tzu said right out of the gate in the Tao Te Ching, “The Tao (BEINGNESS) that can
be told is NOT the Eternal Tao”. Moreover, you NEVER "arrive at what you are". You are ALREADY THAT and to try to arrive
is the direct DENIAL of your True Nature. That is a spectacular ignorance, a spiritual crap idea that reinforces a false sense
of being a separate, discrete entity. In the mind of mankind there seems to be a "veil" that separates a "me" from "everything
else". But look for that veil, that ACTUAL separation and you find nothing! That - No Thing - IS your true nature. Spacelike,
ordinary, being-aware. Just THAT and nothing else.
Lao Tzu pointed beautifully with his Tao Te Ching. The entire first verse says it all succinctly.
The Tao (BEINGNESS) that can be told is NOT the Eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not
the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of
heaven and Earth.
The named is the mother of the ten
Ever desireless, one can see the
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations.
These two spring from the same source
but differ in name; this appears as darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gate to all mystery.
Mystery equals NOT KNOWING. In Not
Knowing there is Absolute Freedom, BEYOND or PRIOR TO both Being and Non-Being.....
R.G. I just don’t know what the first pointer is starting with,
must be a really good pointer then?
C: Again, there no “right” or “good” or “wrong” or “bad”
pointers! These concepts ONLY point to That which IS and PRIOR to concepts, PRIOR to experiences. Prior to “subject/object”
is YOU, The Ultimate One Subject, The Absolute a Priori IsNess.
I AM THAT. YOU ARE THAT. There Is ONLY THAT. THAT is absolutely empty and absolutely full, utterly
no thing AND every thing – the screen and the show, the witness and the witnessed, all is One.
Language seems to divide nothing and everything into two and many and gazillions of separate
objects - but the impossible to understand PARADOX is that Both Are One, or Neither Are One, and All of This Is One.
If you had any control in this space I would say let the mind blow apart in Not-Knowing. But
there is NO ONE in Charge Here! Or There. Or Anywhere. All there is, is all there is. This IS IT. There is nothing to get.
Nothing! Nada! Zilch! Zip!
So: This Presence of Awareness IS and IS NOT all at once in Timeless Being, AS Timeless Being.
Pause now and drop all concepts and notice that before there is any “thing” YOU ARE.
No kidding, that is IT. YOU ARE and YET You Are Not. Both Not Two. You cannot get this; you
ARE this! And This is Love in action. Oneness Being Itself. Home.
R.G. - There seems to be amazing content and pointers in the audios
you've sent. But I've come to the conclusion (yes inquiry is going on about who came to the conclusion, but besides that point...)
I've come to the conclusion that although non-duality/Advaita is expressed beautifully by, john wheeler, sailor bob Adamson,
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj, Ramana Maharishi etc that they're just pointers and that I am being kept in the loop by listening
to these 'talks' on that that cannot be spoken about.
C: Come back to that final unanswerable question: Who am I? There is NO "conclusion" to come
to! Don't take your stand in intellect. Take you stand in No Thing. You are That: Space-Like-Awareness.
R.G. - So I wondered if you were aware that maybe these talks keep
people coming back to search for more videos by you or wait for more audios to be sent.
C: If that is what happens. A memory here says that this happened for me during my back-and-forth
dialogues with John Wheeler, Tony Parsons, Bob Adamson and others. There is NO control over
that here and none for any seeking “them” or expressing “teacher” either. Who controls? No answer.
That is the “final answer”! Ultimate all is One so there is NO answer to any question that will mean anything
or be in any way significant. And on some reflection, the 120 + videos that were on YouTube are now deleted … too many
were using these videos as a way to avoid a deeper investigation and there was an apparent lack of earnestness to finish the
seeking once and for good.
R.G. - So I will take
the pointer that you have given me and stay with that beyond all else.
C: Well, my friend, I suppose we'll have to see if that is what happens!
R.G. - Just one thing
that isn't understood: The question is arising that if Advaita, or Reality, is beyond words
why is it taught or pointed to?
C: “Advaita means NOT TWO. So this Reality is both beyond and WITHIN all that IS and all
that APPEARS. No separation exists anywhere – yet the sense-feeling “I am me and not you” persist until
deeper investigation arises. This is Oneness seeking Itself! Totally bizarre in a profound way, yet so it seems to be that
the One has divided itself and is now seeking to undivided itself. The cosmic Play! The sun burns. The earth rotates. The
galaxies shine. The pointing happens. ALL happens spontaneously all by itself. To whom? To No One which is also One
and All. By whom? No one and yet the Life Force urges and out come words and music of The One. Like a cosmic Broadway
Musical! Stunning, isn’t it? The wonder of Being This?
R.G. - Who is trying to enlighten/teach people, who is trying to
be saved by teachings?
C: Very good question – for you to ask YOU!
The question who am I (or what am I) has as it's "purpose" to stop that loop in its tracks.
It's about the rediscovery that there is no person and yet Being Is. To paraphrase what Ramana Maharshi
said, the thought 'who am I' will destroy all other thoughts and in the end will itself be destroyed, and there will arise
Self Realization. The paradox is that the Self is already realized (you ARE and the knowing that you are IS The Self, empty,
vacant, yet filled with the totality of all Universes, Galaxies etc and 'your' body/mind/spirit). Some say that this
is Nothing Being Everything. So in FACT (NOT speculation or imagination or memory but in FACT) YOU ARE. This Is-ness that
is ever new and contains all is the true nature of what is real. Then if confusion or doubt remains the question 'who am I'
can be taken up to facilitate 'looking in to self' to see if a separate self-entity with any independent power apart from
Totality can IN FACT be found!
It does seem to be so that many read and view videos and stay stuck in the conceptual understanding
without getting deep into the investigation whether there really IS a separate self. This is why so many find that a
direct consultation "One on One" can dispel doubts and confusion. Many offer such direct consultations, myself included; if
there is interest in pursuing that option, go to the consultations page at
http://charliehayes36.tripod.com/communicatingthis.html for details.
Ponder this as well: “Your innate being stands forever outside of the domain of concepts.
Call that the still, unchanging point. In fact, it is not even really "still" because stillness and motion are attributes
of appearances in consciousness. What you are stands beyond, or free of, all characteristics. Still, some pointer is used
to get us to notice who we are. But even the pointers are dropped ultimately. What you are is not pointer! The only thing
that can make us suffer is the mind's concepts about how we are incomplete, defective or limited. It is not that we have to
make them go away, because that is another concept! And also we are not creating them anyhow. But we can see them for what
they are. In doing so, the belief and interest drops out of the limiting, self-oriented thoughts in the mind — and with
it, the suffering and doubts”. - John Wheeler
R.G. - I don't know anything anymore and although there is a feeling
of regret that I'm letting go of a beautiful man by the name charlie go, the thought arises that if there is oneness
than I can never lose you.
C: Who do you believe I am? Someone special and apart from you? Shoot that down. Blow up that
pedestal. All Is One. I am you and you are me; One Presence, One Awareness, One Being.
R.G. - So I guess with ruthless compassion 'let me be''. Thank you
and so long (sadness and feeling of loss). I love you my friend.
C: Who is leaving who? Understand this: That sadness and sense of loss arises as the ego’s
survival mechanism – when the existence of this ego, or “mistaken identity”, is called into question, the
reaction is often a sense of loss or despair. And a feeling of hopelessness may arise, or a sense of frustration, anger or
any other moving of The Absolute as an energy of a language-emotion play. Let that be and look
deep into it” Abandon hope in favor of rigorous looking! Who is angry, frustrated, resigned, or sad? And without those
labels what is there IN FACT? Energy. That Energy is the timeless loving Universal Life Force. Let This Force ERASE you.
Who says charlie is NOT exactly THE SAME as YOU? That is a flat LIE! A totally false belief,
a phony assumption. Got it? The answer is dead simple. NOTHING is excluded from NON duality. ALL is ONE. Expression happens
as the sun rises. All naturally effortless.
There is NO we, and yet, We are One. Ponder this, chew on this; gnaw this bone of contention
until it crumbles and the false self drops into the Great Mystery. When you said “I don’t know anything any more”
you are touching your own final truth! Stay with that as best you can and keep looking with “who am I?” until
there is no question or doubt left. The gift of effortless living and true timeless peace is at hand. Grab it! Much Love to
R.G. – I am seeing changes … there is not a caring anymore
for people's approval which feels very empowering. The problem/question arose when a thought of superiority came about. It
was seen and inquired about but the urge remained to showoff this feeling of having no limiting beliefs. So after thinking
that no one cares how I feel or think a fear arose also that although I am feeling-understanding/resonating with the truth
that apparently there are others out there who still think they are separate. And since it looks like 95% of people believe
in separation then the whole world is a very dangerous place where everyone is looking out for number one. Wait, maybe this
shows me that since I think that people think that they are still separate that I still believe deep down that I am separate?
I am just standing out here in the wind with no clothes, no center and no reference point and it's scary. What makes it more
frightening is that it feels as if everyone else has concepts that can help them or that they can cling to however false it
be but I have no where to go no where to lean on and that anyone can take advantage of me since I have let go many defenses.
But who has let go of these defenses? It keeps being found that there is nothing being found upon investigation! But it does
not stop there seems to be a habit of wanting to be in control or thinking that there still is something separate. But who
says this? I don't know, don't know. It's stupid because I heard the talks and I was nodding my head saying what else is there
that can be asked but this load OF questions keep happening… Or am I just beating around the bush and I should keep
with the question 'Who Am I'?"
R.G. - "I'm just afraid that if there's no me who would want the
women and good feelings. But I want them, can I keep them?"
There is nothing wrong with thoughts; it is only that you consider them to be about a "me" that
doesn’t have any substance; it's just thoughts, memory, imagination.
Look at it this way:
Here and Now You Are and That is ever-present, prior to, during, and after, all relative “states’
of waking, dream, deep sleep, and regardless of how the brain erupts into thoughts and feelings, That natural, or eternal,
state is being always, and forever remains endless and beginningless, absolutely untouched and unsullied by any appearance,
and effortlessly serenely free.
R.G. - Very helpful thank you so much. I see that absolutely no question is the right one because
they are all part of consciousness which is reflected in the mind and I am not the mind which includes the thought that says
i am not the mind. the only true fact is I am, what I am. I of myself do not know nor do 'I' think 'I'll" ever know it but
who cares! Ha-ha!
C: Okay, good on ya!
R.G. – (Later) - My new question is this, 'I" wanted to go
to Medical School but I see that the “I”
might just be a set of assumptions and very strong belief systems. I guess I mean that I'm afraid that; what I set out to
do and the motivating force that gives meaning and direction to my life, feels like it is being threatened and asking in essence
do you really want to do this? I know the 'I" that is assuming all this is also part of consciousness and my maybe an aspect
of the ego but I keep becoming fearful of letting go of control.
C: This entirely overlooks the fact that before
any thought or question you are, silent and aware. You mistake a thought - "I" - to be what you are. That is the ONLY issue
to resolve: Who ARE you REALLY? Where is any real separate "I"? Who wants? Who asks this? Who are you? WHO!? That is what
you stubbornly refuse to look at. Read the attached copy of “Paradise Found” three times before you ask another
After a while, this arrived):
R.G. - I've really have been feeling more freedom and less
pull from habitual desires and have been smiling more so something clicked from our last discussion so that's the good
news. But I have a question about this not-doing. It seems like this is a pathway of negation I read about some time ago;
basically you negate everything that cannot be you (thoughts, feelings, emotions, mind, body, etc..) which would lead 'you'
directly and nonverbally to the ever present Reality. Thing is that many take the void(nothingness) as the ultimate state
and that that should also be seen to be an illusion and not accepted if it is void of love. Actually I don't actually
merely verbalize "How am I aware or even know that I exist?" anymore because I know that was just pointers and there is no
actual answer. So what I'm wondering........i don't know who cares forget it its just more analyzing ughh at least 'i' am
becoming aware of the vicious circle now but question is who is becoming aware? Charlie the problem is I'm losing …
I don’t know … I don’t know …. wow i see how the search for enlightenment was being treated the same
way as the attainment of any other 'thing'...I don't know. thanks again for the talks it was very humbling... wait …
if 'I" am not interested/care/see the world as it is and see things as they are who will take care of me? i don't see
how one can survive without an ego.
C: Ponder deeply what has already been shared. Read “Paradise Fonnd” agaon.Give
this more of a chance to “sink in”. Challenging the assumption that your brain claims, namely, “I am me”,
get to the bottom of it all and see that this “me” is a GHOST. Take some time. Investigate. Then, feel free to
write again if there is still any question.
Some time passes, then R.G. writes, after a phone chat: It is a blessing
to have talked with you thank you so much.
C: My Pleasure.
(Some weeks pass, then came this in early March 2009:
Can The Inquiry 'Who Am I' Really Work?
R.G. Writes, I for some reason am still just attracted to 'the spiritual stuff'
and like always want to just read a short pointer or so. I came across your newest video which is basically 'Who Am I?' and
to drop all questions but this. Then all today from work to commute to school to back home I was asking Who Am I? It was pretty
easy for the first half a day because it was more of a mantra then a real investigation except at some moments. Then on the
way home I really began to listen for an answer or try to find this 'me' and I realized that there really is nothing that
comes up when the question is asked and I don't know who I am....and then this piece of shit fear came back again. I began
to wonder how easily all the good feelings I've been feeling these past days didn't belong to me because I couldn't find this
me I was attributing these feelings to.
C: That’s consistent with the knowing-seeing
of the absence of a “person” that false entity has been uncovered, by no one at all! It’s a paradox.
R.G. - I then realized that we at the core love ourselves more than anything else.
C: Sounds good! Now let us be really clear … ask you, who realized?
There is no-one to realize, or not … such claims are just divine infinite-energy-pulses of noises in a brain-machine
… noises that have NO intrinsic meaning at all. An aftereffect of clear nonconceptual absence may well arise as an experiencing of love and peace, and then in some cases, the thought I returns from
nowhere attempting to CLAIM this “insight-knowing” for a “knower”, a false concept added to the false
person. Some have called this happening a “flip-flop”. No problem; it passes on its own. No need to resist or
try to fix that; simply keep looking for what the sound in the brain calls “me”. As John Greven says; “What the One source is - cannot be perceived or conceived simply
because there is no other to perceive the One. Yet, there is an undeniable presence that the “I” thought refers
to. Find what the mind calls “I.” Be relentless until the Source is clear. Everything conceivable and perceivable
is appearance - in the presence/awareness - that belongs to no one. That, I am.”
And THAT, YOU ARE.
The knowing is a functional aspect of this Presence-Awareness that
you are. The knower is a powerless meaningless IDEA and nothing more. Ask yourself, can a thought actually DO anything at
all? No. There is NO control to make or avoid desirable or undesirable appearance in this living waking dream-life….
Ball the while time, space, sensations, thoughts, feelings come and go in YOU … the Existingness-Presencing-Peace that
is the Unchanging invincible nakedness of nothing and everything … the Not-Two of Eternal Presence. The world of forms,
body appearances, stars, suns, all of it, is one Energy-Being, showing out in a projection of that Consciousness-Intelligence
that is more magical that any imagination could hold, creating and uncreating itself in a timeless strobe like spontaneous and uncaused play of Love-Light… speaking only poetically as That is beyond
any description, experience or grasping. That is always forever Just Here.
R.G. - God bless you my brother.
I never knew that what we were looking for was here the whole time. It is this love that lets everything arise the good and
bad. Funny thing is that life just goes on I don't feel like I'm in a state where suffering cannot occur which what I thought
all this would lead too. I still do the things I do but realize it's not that serious. I have done inquiry for the last
2 months but I never forgot and maybe it was operating in the background but who knows. Anyways I'm just so glad that there
are people like you that are living and patiently reminding us of that of which we never lost. God bless you take care my
friend. PS- it's effortless now, what the hell did I ever have to do!